I just have to say I think it is funny how some on this forum,can be so sarcastic and act as if they have made these great gains on other protocols besides HD and yet even at thier best weight they are small and have measurements that are well lets say less than huge or even big for that matter!!! I know I know not everybody can be really big or even kind of big, but does that give them the right to run thier mouth as if they were, to put down other protocols because they didnt work for these people and to put the blame on said protocol, I guess it is the american way, why take the blame for ourselves when we can make it seem as if there is someone or something else to blame, as has been said a thousand million times before just because a handful of people have been successful on volume training does not prove anything and does not take into account the thousands who have failed on volume training, these arguements have been rehashed so many times it is to the point of ridiculous, if it was not for Mike Mentzer and guys of the same ilk, thousands upon thousands would still be wasting thier time doing programs that will eventually lead to overtraining, and wasting hours and hours of thier time on something that could have been achieved in a fraction of the time. we can all argue this till we are blue in the face, as has been done on this forum for the past several years and what good has it done a few blow hards get to stir the pot but nothing changes, the people with good genetics, make good gains the people with average genetics, make average gains, and the people with poor genetics, make poor gains and so it goes with the genetics we are stuck with.

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