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Started By Vincent (Geneva, Geneva, Switzerland)

Started on: 3/5/2005 8:22:27 PM, viewed 2288 times
Is Fatigue a stimulus for strength/hypertrophy ?

This question makes me think a lot the last weeks !!! What′s the difference between 1×10 versus 10×1 (same resistance) with X minutes between REPS ?

In both cases we are asking our muscles to generate the same amount of strength for the same volume, only DENSITY is different. Here density doesn′t limit the weight because we use the same weight but DENSITY increase/decrease FATIGUE and DOESN′T increase muscular work. Since the STRENGTH of a muscle is proportional to his cross section I don′t see how something oriented toward ENDUANCE could have a POSITIVE impact on HYPERTROPHY stimulation (the only positive thing that might happend is some growth due to more energy/water stocked into muscles).

They are studies which show that fatigue is not a stimulus (and some which show the contrary). Both cannot be right. In my opinion density is a negative factor which doesn′t increase MUSCULAR WORK (weight x volume) but increase muscles and CNS fatigue WHICH explains why in the FIRST WEEKS the HIGH fatigue groups experiment more strength gains, because they stress their CNS more. Since neuro gains are gained very fast and ~plateau after a few weeks/month of training the Low Fatigue group show the same gains in strength at long term. Here are the results of a study :

"Both training groups completed a mean of 24 training sessions (range 21–27) in the nine week period. The HF protocol produced severe muscle soreness in the first week of training, but this was not the case for the LF protocol. The mean 1RM increased significantly (p<0.05) for both groups, from 85 to 114 kg for HF (34%) and from 80 to 112 kg for LF (40%, fig 1). There was no significant difference between the gains in lifting strength (1RM) of the two groups after 4.5 weeks (p = 0.46) or nine weeks (p = 0.26) of training. The HF group was typically unable to lift 75% 1RM throughout each session and trained at a mean load of 71.8% 1RM."

What if I do : 1×10 to failure at 10RM or 10×1 at 10RM with 1 hour between reps. I believe that the hypertrophic stimulation would be the same (even if it′s hard to believe* !) but the fatigue would be much lower with 10×1 and thus I could recover/surcompensate faster and thus increase my rate of progression.

*but it′s not harder to believe that than 10 repetitions with a given weight have nearly the same effect on hypertrophy stimulation than 30 repetitions with the same weight.

This Topic has 55 Replies: Displaying out of 55 Replies:

Vincent (Geneva, Geneva, Switzerland) on 3/5/2005 9:23:48 PM

I forgot the link for the study : http://bjsm.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/36/5/370#F1

And I add this :

"Alternatively, it may be possible to complete the LF protocol with a training load higher than 75% 1RM and this may produce greater strength gains than we observed."

It′s exactly what I believe : reduce density/fatigue and increase the WEIGHT for more muscular work and less fatigue than with a set, especially a set to failure.

Analyzer (CDA, id, U.S.A.) on 3/5/2005 10:23:04 PM

Here is what I myself think Vincent,

It′s not the fatigue itself, but fatigue is an outward sign that the muscle fibers have worked at a high enough level. Remember, if you hit a high level of fatigue then that means your fibers have hit a very high rate coding level. This means they experience ′their maximum′ tension at a high rate. AND, if the energetic theory is right, it′s not the metabolic fatigue, but the lower level of ATP that will stimulate the latent raised protein synthesis.

This also would show how your 1RM stuff works, your getting high rate coding and massive temporary ATP depletion right off the bat.

Az

Vincent (Geneva, Geneva, Switzerland) on 3/6/2005 7:49:03 AM

"if you hit a high level of fatigue then that means your fibers have hit a very high rate coding level. This means they experience Œtheir maximumŒ tension at a high rate."

I agree but what I think is that the reps at a high rate coding are not more productive than the reps at a lower rate coding but with higher recruitment because the TOTAL muscular work is the same.

Let′s say we do a set of 3 reps to failure and we have only 4 MOTOR UNITS : A+B+C+D

First rep : 100% of the motor units are available each motor units is fired by the CNS 1 time during the rep.

Second rep : only 50% of the motor units can be recruited at the same time because some are fatigued so frequency increase to 2.

Last rep : only 25 % of the motor units can be recruited at the same time so frequency increase to 4.

But as the resistance didn′t change from rep 1 to 3, the muscular work and thus the global stimulation is the same ! It′s why I believe that fatigue and density aren′t good because you have the same hypertrophic stimulation but much more fatigue. It′s good for endurance but for strength…

Analyzer (CDA, id, U.S.A.) on 3/6/2005 12:22:26 PM

True.. but…..

WHAT stimulates those fibers? Contractions right? So during the first rep, if the fibers are contracting with their max force, at 30 HZ and the rep takes 3 seconds, they fired 90 times.

But during the last rep, they are at 60 HZ and the rep takes 5 seconds, now those remaining fibers have fired 300 times. So the last rep is worth more than 3 times the first…

Az

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