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Started By Zico (Voorschoten, somewhere, The Netherlands)

Started on: 9/30/2006 1:38:22 PM, viewed 1661 times
Doing more volume and getting very good results

Hi ,

I have not visited this forum for quit some time.

The reason for this is I stopped using MM Ideal Routine a few months ago. I wasn′t making a lot of progress on it. I find this difficult to admit, because Mike was and still is my favorit bodybuilder. I also love his books and workout video. After not making progress I took a week or two off and resumed with less frequency. in the end I was working out only once every 9 days. But I felt really bad about this. I feel such low frequency is not for me, cause I like the feeling of being active! If I do not workout at least 2 or 3 times a week my enthousiasme get less and less. I feel I relax to much.

So after the Ideal routine I started using routines Arthur Jones gave his trainees in the 70′s.

And I started to workout 3 times a week. Very quickly I discovered that this was to much for me to handle. I just burned out on 3 brutal workouts a week.

So I made an other adjustment.

I split Jones routines in an A and B workout (just one set to faillure). And trained on Monday (A), Wednesday (B) and Friday (A) and of course the next week having an B – A- B workout. This did the trick! I made very good gains on this routine. By spilting the routine I made the routines shorter and was able to give 100% in all excercises.

Three weeks ago I went back to even more volume. I wanted to do something else, but still keep training 3 times a week. Because I will never go back to real volume training like I did several years ago, training myself in the ground.

I remembered a routine from years ago that I always liked to do. Back then I did this routine 4 times a week, but now I do it in the same A-B-A B-A-B style. This routine gave me really great results. I gained about 4 kg bodyweight, in just 3 weeks and became much stronger. It′s the following Routine:


Bench Press 4×6

Incline Press 4×6

Dead Lift 4×6

Lat Pull Down to Neck 4×6

Machine Row 4×6

Press behind Neck 4×6

Upright Row 4×6

Two minutes rest between sets!


Squat 4×6

Leg Extension 4×6

Calf Raises 4×6

Bench Press Small Grip 4×6

Triceps Extension 4×6

Barbell Curl 4×6

Scott Curl 4×6

Two minutes rest between sets!

I have also began to consume more protein starting this routine. As I said it is going great!! My strenghth goes up every workout, I gained mass. The last week alone three guys came to me asking me what I was doing because they noticed I looked so much better.

I know this is all far from Mike′s advice. But it is working great for me.

I have learned a lot from Mike, altough I think most of you will doubt that after reading this post.

I will never go back to training 4 to 6 times a week. That was just crazy! As soon as I start to feel tired (like after using this program for 3 weeks) I will take a week off. I never did that in the past. Plus the above routine is as much volume is I will tolerate. I will not do more volume than this. So my next routine will be less sets.

I am sure to give Mike′s routine from Heavy Duty 1 an other try in the future.


This Topic has 17 Replies: Displaying out of 17 Replies:

Jeff (Toronto, M5T, Canada) on 10/1/2006 5:38:08 AM

Good for you Zico!

I′m sure you′ve finally realized that a lot of Menzter′s concerns about overtraining were completely unfounded. Volume is not the enemy, it just has to be used properly.

By accident, you′ve started doing what coaches and profesional strength athletes have been doing on purpose for years; you′ve started to cycle your training load. This is how more advanced trainees train. If you are interested in how to set up these cycles to sustain great long term progress, try reading up on real strength training articles. I can suggest you start looking here:


Read everything on this thread. It′s a great place for training info., especially if you′re new to this style.

I also like your Torso / Limbs split. I also find it to be a great way to split up the body.

Good luck,


Tdrag (Belgrade, Serbia, Serbia) on 10/1/2006 9:32:40 AM

Zico are you going to failure on 4 set/exercise protocol ?

I like your setup because of resting time(not a fan of rushing) and low reps.Also I like torso/limbs split ….I would do it if I wasnt doing full body.

Also Im fan of higher protein(whatever anyone says it just works better for me). I would say you nailed it good with this program.

Zico (Voorschoten, somewhere, The Netherlands) on 10/1/2006 3:24:56 PM

Hey Jeff,

I just knew you were going to respond to my post. The last few days i have been reading a few posts on this forum and I discovered you and I think alike most of the time.

To be honest it was quit difficult for me to admit that I was not making good progress on the Ideal Routine. Mike is my hero in bodybuilding I admire the man′s body as well as his thoughts. But I just did not gain very much on this routine.

After changing my routine and consuming mote protein I really made very good gains. I just can′t believe it. A specially since I am 41 years old. I thought I could never duplicate my former size again.

I stopped bodybuilding almost 9 years ago and started over again about 1,5 years ago. I tried Mentzer routine for almost 12 months. With little results. At first I thought it is probably my age. I thought I can never get as big as I was before. But the last few weeks made me believe that i cab be as good end maybe even better than before. I have made such good results the last 3 weeks!

Now, after 3 weeks on this program, I feel tired and also feel some joints (wrists, elbow and shoulders) so next week is a full recovery week for me. That is what I have learned from Mike. I take much more rest than in the old days. And I just know that after this week I am going to make even more progress.

Jeff, thanx for the thread. I am going to read it.


Zico (Voorschoten, somewhere, The Netherlands) on 10/1/2006 3:45:55 PM

Thanks Tdrag,

What I am doing is try to select a weight at which it is posible for me to do 4×6. Once I reach that goal depending on how diffucult the sixth rep in the fourth set was ( I might have done 7 or 8 reps in the fourth set or just barely made the sixth rep) I will pick a higher weight for all four sets (usually add 5 pounds) or keep the first 2 sets same weight and only raise the weight for the last two sets (or just the last one) and try to make 6 reps again. So to be honest faillure comes only in the third or fourth set.

If I just make 5 or 6 reps in the third set I know I will only get to 4 or 5 reps in the last set.

But I know I can do all four sets whith 6 reps in my next workout.

And so I work my way up in weights. Until now I became stronger every workout. But because I use heavy weights (heavy for me, maybe not for someone else) I know I will be getting joint pains in a few weeks and have to take a week rest.

Rest time is quit long, but I use it to make sure I am strong again when I continue with the next set.

The split, I really did not think much about it. My initial goal was to make sure that I did not have to work a large muscle group after my leg workout. I hate that! After training legs I am always waisted and don′t have any energie left. This way, after legs, (I train my arms), I train two smaller muscle groups and also two of my favorite muscles. So I make sure that the legs and the arms get my full attention!!

Yes this routine is working great for my at the moment and I plan to continue for as long as the results are good.


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