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Started By dafortae (a, a, U.S.A.)

Started on: 11/21/2003 9:56:22 PM, viewed 3747 times
Minimizing Overlap

Hey guys,

I was reading Heavy Duty 2 once again, and I started thinking about something. I was reading about minimizing overlap with the ideal and consolidation routine, and then I obvserved Mike still had quite a bit of overlap in the consolidation routine. I know hit4life mentioned that Mike started about a super-consolidated routine that was his suggestion much later than the one in Heavy Duty 2. I believe he pushed the super-consolidated more than the consolidated.

At any rate, I started thinking about consolidating even more. When I do heavy squats, my hamstrings end up getting extremely sore, even though it is primarily a pushing movement with my quads. I feel all the stress in my quads when doing them, and I don′t feel them much in my hamstrings. Since the hamstrings and the quads get totally nailed by squats, I was thinking if there was an upper body exercise that mimiced the motion of the squat for the upper body.

I came to the conclusion that dips are like the upper body squat. I started wondering if the dips really nail the biceps like squats really nail the hamstrings. After all, the angles are almost exactly the same and both of them are using the pushing muscles as the primary mover. I never get sore doing dips, but I can always seem to increase them quite a bit, just like squats. I′m seriously considering doing squats one workout and dips the next workout. I know when I use to do flat bench presses with free weights, my lats got more sore than when I do pulldowns or rows! I′m wondering if dips really nail the lats too. If so, dips would pretty much hit every muscle in the upper body.

I′d really like to hear what you guys think, especially about dips nailing the biceps like squats nailing the hamstrings. Squats hit the calves too, so nothing is needed for the lower body besides squats. Do you guys think dips would hit all the muscles in the upper body? It seems the upper body has more muscles, and more functions, but I′m still wondering if every muscle would get hit somewhat. Can′t wait to hear what everyone thinks.



This Topic has 27 Replies: Displaying out of 27 Replies:

jimpaul (zanesville, ohio, U.S.A.) on 11/21/2003 10:28:27 PM

Darrell it′s really funny that you came to that idea about the dips. All of my training life I had called and read, dips being (the upper body squat)!

Yes………..think of the negative portion of those lifts, they help in stabilizing and/or lowering! In squats the force is against the hamstrings on the negative, in bench presses the same with the lats, so in dips there should also be some biceps and lats. These compound movements do hit a lot of muscles! Maybe more than we realize, at least stabilizing wise. Darrell if you were to change your routine what exactly would it look like? Thanks.


Analyzer (CDA, id, U.S.A.) on 11/21/2003 10:44:08 PM

Hey Darrell,

The biceps might do a bit of stablizing, but are actually undergoing a stretch while doing dips, so do not get to contract that well. Only one part of the hams get′s worked in Squats also, the muscle that goes up and attatched above the hip joint, it′s trying to pull your pelvis down so that′s how it′s getting worked so well. BUT, I have read that the dip is the upper body squat also, if I had to do only one exercise for upper, I think dips would hit the most muscles. The upper back, mid traps, upper and upper pecs won′t get alot of stimulation though. 🙂

Take care!


dafortae (a, a, U.S.A.) on 11/21/2003 11:35:33 PM

Thanks guys for the replies! Hahaha, that′s funny about reading and seeing it called upper body squats!

Jimpaul, if I change my routine (and go super consolidated), it will probably be something like this:

Workout 1


1) Dips

Workout 2


1) Squats

Workout 3


1) Rows

Workout 4


1) Leg Press

The other possibility would be:

Workout 1


1) Dips

2) Rows

Workout 2


1) Calf Raises

2) Squats

I feel more comfortable with this last routine, just because I think Analyzer may be right about dips missing the upper and middle back. However, I never thought squats hit the calves at all, and I know many people put an inch on their calves by not working them out at all and only doing squats!!! I would probably do the 2nd routine first, and if I got to a point where I was taking a ton of time off and my strength increases weren′t huge, go to routine number 1.

What do you guys think?

Analyzer, are you sure only part of the hamstring gets hit during squats? When I feel them with my hand or when I bend over (stiff legged), my entire back side of my legs are extemely sore. It doesn′t feel like just one part.

Ok, if dips are the upper body squat, is the pulldowns the "reverse" upper body squat? What I mean by that is the angles seem the same as the dips, only in the other direction! Would these 2 exercises hit all muscles? What about rows? Would rows and dips hit all muscles in the upper body? It seems to me that both of these combinations would.



dafortae (a, a, U.S.A.) on 11/21/2003 11:39:39 PM

I just thought of one more thing. Tell me if this makes sense to you guys.

Dips are the opposite of Pulldowns.

Rows are the opposite of Bench Press.

Squats are the opposite of Stiff-Legged Deadlifts

Do you think these statements are true? I was thinking about limb movement and angles, and this seems right to me.

What′s funny for me, is I′m great with dips, not as good with bench press.

Conversely, I′m great with rows, not as good with pulldowns! Very strange, but true, observation of myself.


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